The Cold Hotspot

[Erkki]

Hey, you quoted my drunken-forgotten post. I could kiss you!



Maybe I remember wrong, but after playing the The Last Express and Blade Runner, I sort of expected that it would start a minor revolution in the adventure genre. Surprisingly, nothing happened at all and everybody continued making adventure games as they were before those two games.



I personally have no interest in playing one of those run-of-the-mill adventure games they produce nowadays. I hope Dreamfall will change something. Till then I can play some of the amateur games (they are often more novel & interesting than the commercial ones) or old adventures when I get in the adventure game mood.



Note: I might be prejudiced because I haven't actually played any adventures lately, besides Broken Sword 3 and Jack the Ripper.

[stu]

Spot on article. Says it all. Stop the adventure snobs from strangling story driven, exploratory, and generally wonder-full games with their cliched definitions and un-inventive approaches. Evolve or die.

[jmackley]

I do want to say something about the action in Full Throttle.  Tim initially intended the mine-road sequences to be a puzzle.  Different weapons worked better on different people.  I don't recall whether that idea got scrapped or that nobody noticed the puzzle aspect (cuz you could get through it by clicking real fast), but the action was supposed to be tempered with some light puzzling.

[Erwin_Br]

I didn't notice the puzzle aspect in Full Throttle either. It didn't bother me in the slightest, though. It was a nice diversion and transition to the following area to explore.

[deadworm222]

I didn't like Full Throttel 

[Trumgottist]

I do want to say something about the action in Full Throttle.  Tim initially intended the mine-road sequences to be a puzzle.  Different weapons worked better on different people.  I don't recall whether that idea got scrapped or that nobody noticed the puzzle aspect (cuz you could get through it by clicking real fast), but the action was supposed to be tempered with some light puzzling.

You could get past it without "solving the puzzle"? The last one with the goggles too? If some people didn't notice the puzzle, I'm the opposite.

[ad7venture]

I know this is an old feature, but I just went through and read the first part.  My only thought is that, aside from adding some action sequences, it would be pretty hard for an indie to make major changes in the adventure genre.  The name of the article is also a little deceptive, as most of the games referenced as "new" and "better" all used hot spots. So what exactly can we do?  Experiments like The Last Express cost millions of dollars and didn't make any money, actually they lost a lot of money.  Action sequences very seldom work with puzzles because they are just so different and most people fall into twitch camps or thinker camps.  Also, Siberia is given as a bad example, maybe not in the article but in the comments, yet it was the last game of any kind that I played all the way through and actually felt like I didn't get ripped off.  No offense to the author, but it seems like he's suggesting trying to copy everyone else, which only ends up making a bad, mixed up and confused copy.  Adventures need to reach casual gamers and all the suggestions are about making adventures reach hard core gamers.  People will hold up Dreamfall for the last big success, but I think that style is not going to be something that people will flock toward, and it looks like an expensive game to produce.  The truth is, the examples given were more failed experiments.  Even Broken Sword had to back away from the action sequences and the author said it didn't work.   The real success story of the year, as far as I'm concerned, was Sam and Max, which used pretty much the same old formula for adventures but focused on the advantages of 3d, a simple interface, and good writing.  We need puzzles that the common player will not be completely stumped on, we need a good interface, and we need a powerful story.  We don't need to copy and absorb other genres.  We don't need to ride over someone's shoulder through infinite terrains and decide what clothing our avatar hero should wear.  When you take out the endless slaughter that those games use, it's pretty boring.

[Trumgottist]

So what exactly can we do?  Experiments like The Last Express cost millions of dollars and didn't make any money, actually they lost a lot of money.

But the most experimental part of it wasn't what cost those millions, so isn't a game that doesn't have to make millions a better place to experiment in? I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with doing things the way they have been done before - the one adventure game I've made this far is very traditional in most ways - but that as a game maker it's a good thing to keep an open mind about things. Think about why you're doing things they way you're doing them instead of making a Monkey Island clone. If after you've thought about it, you want to do it the way it's been done before, that's fine too. It's the possibility of innovation that's important.

I haven't played TLE myself, so I can't offer an opinion on how successful the experiment was. Its unique structure is highly valued by many, though.

[ad7venture]

But the most experimental part of it wasn't what cost those millions, so isn't a game that doesn't have to make millions a better place to experiment in?

I think that it was.  What most liked about the Last Express was that it generated more than one scenario.  In effect, you are writing many games rather than one.  Many games = more expense.  I'm not against experimenting.  I just thought the premise is misleading.  The games he cited used hot spots and mostly incorporated action from other genres.  That's not much of an experiment and didn't seem to work all that well.  I guess I'd rather see the genre morph it's strengths rather than copy other genres.  To be honest, it sounds like one of those young game writers that wants to do everything all the other games do and so much more.  Well, there is a huge team of people doing what those games do already, so one 13 year old may have trouble doing more than that. 
I've got two words: show me.  If someone wants to put their game where their mouth is like Squinky is doing.  I'm all for it.  I'm just a little tired of armchair game designers telling everyone what's wrong with the genre.

[Trumgottist]

Sure, more content = more expense, but the experiment doesn't require a state-of-the-art 3d engine, or Syberia-level graphics. It could be done with our tools and skills.

I'm not longing for action games snuck into my adventure games, but the main point of the article writer (your hotspot comments tell me you haven't read the followup articles yet) is that we shouldn't do things in a certain way just because that's the way they've been done before. That's a point I agree with.

[ad7venture]

I'm not longing for action games snuck into my adventure games, but the main point of the article writer (your hotspot comments tell me you haven't read the followup articles yet) is that we shouldn't do things in a certain way just because that's the way they've been done before. That's a point I agree with.

I stated I only read the first part. 
If you put it that general, almost no one can disagree.  I just didn't find anything particularly innovative about the examples given.  The Last Express was definitely the most innovative and did stay what I consider to be true to the genre.  I don't think the use  of a 3d engine really upped the cost that much.  It wasn't just forking paths, which doesn't really increase the expense that much.  The characters acted more like real characters that went through a full daily routine.  Even in the tight confines of a train, that can be a lot of work.  Although interesting, I didn't find I was brought that much more into the game.  In the end, it's the story that brings me into the game.  I have enough imagination to not require the characters to go through a full daily routine.  Having said that, it did open up some interesting puzzles where you had to wait until a character was gone from a room etc to explore it.

[Squinky]

To be honest, it sounds like one of those young game writers that wants to do everything all the other games do and so much more.  Well, there is a huge team of people doing what those games do already, so one 13 year old may have trouble doing more than that.

Actually, he's a forty-year-old gay Filipino guy with a fine arts degree, and a well-loved (and sometimes well-despised) fixture over at the Adventure Gamers forums. Still, to my knowledge, Trep hasn't yet made a game of his own, save for doing writing for the now-defunct Curves of Danger project.

I've got two words: show me.  If someone wants to put their game where their mouth is like Squinky is doing.  I'm all for it.  I'm just a little tired of armchair game designers telling everyone what's wrong with the genre.

Yeah! My philosophy exactly. You can theorise all you want, but if you can't apply your ideas to the real world, they're pretty much useless.

In my case, though, I don't have any particular desire to change the adventure genre, so much as I want to not allow my imagination to be constrained by genre conventions, and encourage other developers to do the same.

[ad7venture]

In my case, though, I don't have any particular desire to change the adventure genre, so much as I want to not allow my imagination to be constrained by genre conventions, and encourage other developers to do the same.

Mostly I just like stories and adventures center the most on them.  There are only so many things you can do with computer games as an activity and most of them have been explored.    I don't like choosing verbs, but finding the right gadget to fit in a scenario is still fun for me, as is interacting with characters and manipulating objects and being rewarded by moving the story along.  I don't need or enjoy controlling characters like simulations do.   I don't need to dress them up or give them their name,  so I don't put those things in my games.  We all have different activities that we find fun and I think as game designers we should try to explore those things.  I doubt anyone can write a fun game if they're including things they don't find fun themselves.   I could care less if someone says I made a Monkey Island clone or some other over-generalized comparison.  Those same people are probably playing role playing games which all seem like clones to me.   I read hundreds of books and watch hundreds of movies that aren't  innovative in the way I engage with them.  They connect with me because I relate to the characters and their situations.  If I add some unique activity it will be because the activities around didn't work for the situation, which is the way it should be as far as I'm concerned.  You don't invent for the sake of invention, you invent because you need something that doesn't exist.

[pixotica]

I am always looking for more story, less game. I like the painted backgrounds, I hate most game play. I want play, relax, enjoy, not walk all over trying to figure out some puzzle. I want to interact , read, listen. I think game play is killing adventure games. I want an interactive adventure book, more like a movie and I get to take part. I am working on my second game a graphic adventure game book, called Senshis, it is like a book, each page leads to 3 pages, sort of a gimme, and 2 puzzles, but you are never stuck, you alwys have a way to move ahead, and a back button to try again, its about weaving a story for me.aLWAYS MOVING FORWARD. Never being stuck, and having replay value, that second run through has a whole new path to explore. So I am making what I would like to play, cause I can't find what I like. Yes I am an old computer user with a few games under my belt, I started with cando on an amiga way back when. So I cut my teeth on text adventures, and old sierras.