Monkey Island 2

[ad7venture]

I'm playing Monkey Island 2, the newer version.  I never played the second installment of Monkey Island.  It's amazing how hard it is.  There are some good puzzles, but some obtuse puzzles, too many areas open at the same time, too much left over inventory, too many red herrings, and the story feels a little cluttered and disjointed. 
Never thought I'd be saying that about one of the most respected adventure games of all time.

[Igor Hardy]

Hmm... I'm surprised you think the game is overloaded. There is a nice introductory chapter, and I love how the world opens up later on. That's also something I really enjoyed in Discworld 1.

And aren't main stories "disjointed" and twisted in all Monkey Island games? You're always sent on complex multi-item quests and the stories progress in-between really. It's the backstories around specific characters you can talk with that are usually in the spotlight.

[ad7venture]

"And aren't main stories "disjointed" and twisted in all Monkey Island games?"

Yes, but I haven't played them for a long while.  A game that open shouldn't have over 50 inventory items.  Actually, no game should have over 50 inventory items, but especially a game that open.  The puzzles should relate to inventory items in that area most of the time so the player isn't required to keep traipsing through scenes over and over.  I'm not sure how you can telegraph that to the player, but if you don't, they're going to keep going back and forth looking for some item they think they need.  I really got sick of it.  I think there was a time when that was all right because we didn't have many games and computers were new, but now it's more of an aggravation.

[Igor Hardy]

For me it's still alright.  Monkey Island 2 feels way more imaginative and fun than how adventure games are at the moment.

But I agree with you about times changing and computers being a much stronger attraction back in the day. You wanted every game to be different and show you something new. You were trusting and patient that great surprises await you within an initially strange game. Nowadays gamers are too cynical to even believe that's possible.

[ad7venture]

Monkey Island works in it's own way, I just think it was flawed by too many inventory items.  I couldn't even remember what was in the inventory, and it was a pain constantly scrolling through it. I wouldn't like a steady diet of that type of game.  I like games like Siberia, where the worlds are smaller and there is more of a feeling of progression, which also lends itself better to a slightly more linear story.  It's usually better to have more than one puzzle to work on at a time because you can be digesting one while working on another, but when that becomes overwhelming, I tend to just give up and get a walk through or a hint.  That format gets used a lot, where initially there is a smaller world which opens to a larger world and then ends again in a smaller world.  I just thought it was flawed in some ways, probably because it was early on.  I remember having the patience to walk over and over through worlds looking for something that got missed in the old days, but now I don't have that kind of patience anymore, and to be honest, I don't think it makes a very good game.  I don't agree that more modern games aren't as imaginative, I think many of them are more imaginative, like Siberia, Broken Sword, Longest Journey, and many of the variations of Myst.  I suppose when you have a loose story like that you can throw basically anything in, but I don't consider that imaginative in itself just because of that.  Something more cohesive requires more imagination.  The re-use of many characters wasn't that imaginative.  I thought Monkey Island one was a better game, but I haven't played it for ages so maybe I would change my mind about that also.  
I think I'm sounding more critical than I really am about it.  I'm re-playing Siberia right now and seeing a lot of flaws I didn't notice before also.  By flaws, I mean the game is being stretched out without really adding any game play.

[nigec]

Maybe we should start a thread about Siberia, I have played both
Not played MI2 so I don't have much to say on this one

[Erwin_Br]

Doesn't Syberia 2 have a cliffhanger ending that's unresolved because of part 3 being canceled?

[Igor Hardy]

I always found Syberias deeply flawed as games, and even in terms of building a believable world, but they make it up in aspects of heart, character, and having some beautiful designs.

[nigec]

They pretty much ended it with Syberia 2 as far as I can remember

Yes Igor it was a very clunky game, GUI wise it wasn't very good, dialog was a bit pigeon English at times and the over use of "Miss Walker"  was enough to drive one insane, imagine every sentence I wrote has " Igor Hardy " in it, well thats how the game felt, even so it kept my interest and I rate both installments highly

[ad7venture]

I'm re-playing Siberia one and I like a lot of it.  The premise is pretty far out, but I like it because of that.  It allows lots of interesting uses of the automatons.  My problem with it is they use multiple guess puzzles in some places, which is all right if it's not overdone, but in one place, you have to walk the character through about 4 or 5 screens for every guess, which I consider flawed.  That's just extending the game by making the player walk through the same screens over and over. There are also way too many doors that don't do anything but still have a hot spot on them, and you have to listen to the same tired old excuse, "I don't need to go there."
Even now, after having played it long ago, it makes me curious about what comes next, mainly because I've forgotten so much.  The idea of having these huge wind up toys is pretty cool, I think, even if it is impossible.  The sets are very well done, and still hold up after these many years, although the models look a little dated. 
I think adventures need an imaginative premise just like scifi and fantasy novels, and Syberia has it.  It's not too dialog heavy.  You don't have to navigate through dialog trees for no reason.  It did make you read through a long journal which was pretty unnecessary, I thought, because they did a little skit that explained it all later.   It was still an acceptable length, however.  The puzzles aren't particularly hard, but fit perfectly with the story.  I always feel like I'm doing something necessary to further the plot and the animated cut scenes are very rewarding and just the right length.  I never feel like control has been taken from me.  The outcome is interesting.   Anyone that thinks cut scenes take you out of the game should play Syberia.