Question about translated games

[Squinky]

I've had an inquiry from someone about making a translation for Life Flashes By, and I was wondering something: is it at all possible for translations to be bundled separately from the game's slg file? From a long-term perspective, if my game's text doesn't change, it'd be super handy not to have to make a new build (and have people re-download it) every time a new translation is added.

[Trumgottist]

Currently, it's not possible, but it's a feature that shouldn't be impossible to add.

[Squinky]

Cool! Consider it on my wishlist, then.

[Trumgottist]

How do you imagine yourself distributing the translation file, though? If you're building an installer for it, isn't that at least as much work as updating the main file? If not, do you really expect a random player to navigate to the folder for the game data and put the file there? (Remember that AppData is a hidden folder on Windows - it's not something that people without special computer interest knows about or want to mess with. I don't know if the average Mac user is comfortable messing about in Application Support either.)

Or if you want the engine to look for the translation file next to the gamedata instead, it's pretty much the same problem with that. On Mac, this means going inside the app bundle, and on Windows it's Program Files which is also outside of a normal person's comfort zone.

So unless you have a good idea on how to solve that problem, I'm not convinced that it's a good idea.

[NigeC]

Things like Lassie and Visionaire can export a text file with the default language dialogs, both just use an ID number that the engine uses when the text is needed, here's a Visionaire snippet:

Code:

391 Key   
814 I've found a key<p1><br/>   
401 Dust bin   
815 No thanks, I bet its gross in there<p2><br/>   
568 its to dark<p3>   
403 Fusebox   
240 Front door   
243 The door is locked<p3>   
237 Front room   
244 Stairs   
256 Cellar door   
248 Kitchen Door   
46 back Door   
56 Sink   
939 blood   
1103 Door   
1104 It wont open!<p2><br/>   
531 Drawer   
530 Open drawer   
1101 Drawer   
1102 The drawer seems to be jammed!<p2><br/>

The numbers look a bit random but I did all the rooms at once so you could navigate then went back and added more stuff.
Basically you export the file, translate and import as german

With Awakening it was a bit more mechanical, as you programmed hotspots etc, you created a text file with the dialog and used the hotspot type for the ID. then created an option of which file to use from the game menu, the player just included a file rather than it being integral like Visionaire

Anyway Awakening/LUA

Code:

g_msg = {
hotspot_toolchest='Tool chest',
hotspot_woman='Dead woman',
hotspot_blind='Roller blind',
hotspot_guitarcase='Guitar case',
hotspot_plankone='Broken plank',
hotspot_door='Door',
hotspot_brick='Half a brick',
hotspot_plankloose='Loose plank',
hotspot_windowone='Window',
hotspot_lock='Cheap padlock',
hotspot_hammer='hammer',
hotspot_gun='Rifle',
---item responses
dead_zone='I dont want to go over there until I close the blind',
woman_disc='Miss Hallaway is dead for sure',
guitarcase_disc='this is my guitar case',
toolbox_disc='Its a locked tool box',
windowone_disc='A window covered by the blind',
lock_disc='I can\'t break it with my bare hands',
door_disc='I\'m not leaving while the killer is out there',
blind_disc='I can\'t reach it to pull it down'
}

[Trumgottist]

Nige, that's pretty much how translations are done in SLUDGE too. The question isn't about how to create the translations, but how to distribute them.

[NigeC]

oops, sorry, that'll teach me to half read things lol

Would it not be possible to make the game player look for the translation file rather than the user? I guess the issue then is whether the OS will allow this, from my time testing Thea both Mac and Windows can be a total pain for some people.. then there's non westerncharacter sets which seem to throw a spanner in the works looking for data paths

[BigMc]

Yes, the file could be located using an open file dialog.

[Trumgottist]

That's an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of. I guess that could be accessed by adding an "other" option to the language dropdown in the startup window. Yes, that's probably the easiest possible way (for the game maker) to create this feature.

I'm still not convinced that external translation files is a good idea though. I see it as more trouble than it's worth. (Both for the player and the one implementing it. I don't think a game player should have to do more than click on the game to play. This is an unnecessary complication.) And it has the potential of creating "interesting" bugs unless the entire translation is saved with saved games. (For the same reason that saved games are incompatible across versions of the same game, and that a game can't switch translations once it's started.) But please do argue for the feature if you want it! Discussion is good.

[BigMc]

I'm also not very keen to add this. And about the re-downloading of games with new translations: That shouldn't happen too much, because as a player you either understood the game without the new translation, or you wouldn't have downloaded the game without the translation in the first place. The new translation rather increases the target audience than adding value for people who have already played the game.

[Erwin_Br]

The most elegant solution would of course be an update installer that checks where the game is installed and replaces/adds files as necessary. Like an incremental backup only backs up the files that have been changed since the last time.

The game developer tells it what files to update, and where these are (relatively) located.

[Trumgottist]

But if you have to build installers for the translation (one for Windows, one for Mac, and maybe a readme for Linux?), it's less work to simply update the game itself. One re-compilation, re-build the Windows installer, update the Mac bundle, re-zip the naked game file for Linux, and re-upload everything. Done.

You have to give the player the extra work as Nige suggested (download two things - game and translation separately - and then manually feed the game the translation) in order to reduce work for the game author. Unless you leave everything to do with the translation to a third party, of course. Then the installer idea makes sense.

Or are you suggesting that the update installer should be integrated in the engine? If so, I strongly disagree. Not many players will appreciate that the game suddenly decides it wants to download a Spanish translation. (As BigMc said, if they didn't need it to begin with, they're unlikely to want it later.)

[NigeC]

I guess you could have an installer for the translation file, the customer downloads the game installer and the Dutch language pack, maybe have the language pack installer prompt for the location for the player.exe just incase its not installed in the default location.. its probably the easiest way, but then again I don't have to program the engine core to make it happen lol

[Trumgottist]

I must be expressing myself unusually poorly today. Sorry - please keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English, and a musician rather than a writer.

What you say is exactly what I have already described two times as being more work for the game maker than just updating the game and releasing a new version. Programming the engine core to make it happen - yes, it would be a bit of work, and it would make things a bit messier than they are today - but that is not my main objection.

[Erwin_Br]

I think the developer should use a third party solution. Like ClickTeam's PatchMaker (PC), or iPatch (Mac).